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I know that both diodes in an NPN BJT transistor is forward biased under saturation mode. I also know that when a npn bjt transistor is saturated, it acts as a short circuit between collector and emitter. This means that Ic = Ie. I also know that this means that current flows from collector to base and then from base to emitter.

The problem that I'm having is that I don't understand why current flows from collector to emitter if the P-N junction from base to collector is forward biased. I think of the PN junction as a diode. If this junction is forward biased then current can only flow from the P area where the base is located to the N area where the collector is located. But I know that because the BJT acts as a short circuit, current is flowing from collector to base, and then from base to emitter. To summarize my confusion, I don't understand how when both diodes are forward biased that the BJT acts as a switch that allows current to flow from collector to emitter.

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    \$\begingroup\$ Electric, Unless you really want a detailed understanding of more physical models than what diodes and current sources provide (if that's your goal then any book with "microelectronics" in its title will get you closer, though even those will not get into Bloch's theorem for diagonalizing Hamiltonians of wave functions and energies), then go here and look over the original high-level view of the BJT found in the Ebers-Moll "level 1: DC" model. It's good enough to get you all you need to know. That's the only EESE page covering all details. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 15, 2024 at 19:45
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    \$\begingroup\$ However, it will not "explain why". For that, you really do need to read the first few chapters (up to and including BJTs, which are usually covered after a chapter on semiconductors, a chapter on some further important details about the relationship between diffusion and mobility, and a chapter on diodes.) It's not a lot to read, actually. I found this and chapters 2 through 4 seem to cover some of it. Haven't read that, myself. But it seems to hit the high points. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 15, 2024 at 19:52
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    \$\begingroup\$ You may be able to use the above links to clarify and sharpen your remaining thoughts and your question. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 15, 2024 at 19:55

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Do not confuse a BJT with two back-to-back diodes. Sure, it contains two PN junctions that behave just like diodes (because they are diodes) in isolation, but the geometry of the BJT causes the system as a whole to behave very differently.

In the context of a saturated NPN transistor, current flowing into the base can be attributed to diode action of both forward-biased junctions B-E and C-E, and you could use the diode equation to calculate it. Current that flows from collector directly to emitter, though, arises from an entirely different mechanism, that has very little (if anything) to do with the diode-like properties of either PN junction.

The base region is so thin that minority carriers (electrons, in the case of NPN) arriving into that region from the emitter find themselves already in very close proximity to the collector. Such proximity doesn't arise in a normal diode's PN junction, and consequently these carriers are not subject to the usual "blocking" behaviour of the base-collector junction.

A large percentage of them get "swept" directly into the depletion region of the base-collector junction under the influence of that junction's electric field, from where they can travel freely to the collector, in the "wrong direction", so to speak.

Collector current is not to be attributed to (or analysed in terms of) the behaviour of a PN junction.

See this question, and its accepted answer for more details.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ "Collector current is not to be attributed to (or analysed in terms of) the behavior of a PN junction." Actually, when one understands the behavior of carriers in a PN junction correctly, one can form an accurate understanding of what is happening in a transistor. The problem is that most people have an incorrect / naive idea of how PN junctions work. The flow of electrons from base to collector in a saturated transistor is exactly what one should expect with a forward biased PN junction with a superabundance of electrons on the P side -- electron flow from P to N. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 16, 2024 at 8:50
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I know that both diodes in an NPN BJT transistor is forward biased under saturation mode.

Correct.

I also know that when a NPN BJT transistor is saturated, it acts as a short circuit between collector and emitter.

Not really correct. There's always some voltage drop from the collector to the emitter -- depending on the transistor and the way it's being used this can be from 50mV to half a volt or more.

This means that Ic = Ie.

Very much not correct. A transistor is saturated when the base-emitter junction is forward biased. This results the transistor needing lots of base current (see the end of my answer). In older transistors this means the base current needs to be about \$\frac{10}{H_{FE}} I_C\$ or even more, as opposed to \$\frac {I_C}{H_{FE}}\$ in "normal" operation.

I also know that this means that current flows from collector to base and then from base to emitter.

Kinda true -- it's more accurate to think of the collector current as flowing through the base on its way to the emitter -- the base current can be thought of as a parasitic current that you need to supply to keep the base voltage elevated above the emitter voltage.

The problem that I'm having is that I don't understand why current flows from collector to emitter if the P-N junction from base to collector is forward biased.

Because the collector current is flowing through the base. In normal operation, you need to supply a bit of current to the base to account for recombination -- in saturation, you need to supply enough current to the base to overcome the collector current that's just naturally flowing from the base to the collector.

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    \$\begingroup\$ You wrote: "In order for a transistor to saturate it needs lots of base current." For my opinion, this sounds a little misleading and can lead to a completely wrong understanding of the function of the transistor. The drastic increase in base current is the RESULT of saturation (both pn junction forward biased) and not its cause. The base-collector junction is forward biased resulting from a large voltage drop Ic*Rc which makes the the collector potential Vc smaller than the base potential Vb (npn case): Vc<Vb resp Vbe>Vce. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 16, 2024 at 8:38
  • \$\begingroup\$ Edited -- thanks. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 16, 2024 at 16:02
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The problem that I'm having is that I don't understand why current flows from collector to emitter if the P-N junction from base to collector is forward biased.

When a PN junction is forward biased, there is a constant flow of carriers (of each type) across the junction in each direction. The net flow of current depends upon the magnitudes of these flows.

The flows result from two processes. Diffusion and Drift. Like one gas diffusing within another, the random thermal motion of carriers causes them to diffuse from an area area of high concentration to an area of low concentration.

However, diffusion will often lead to an imbalance in net charge density. As a result of this imbalance of net charge density, strong electric fields are created. These strong electric fields exert forces on the carriers giving them a tendency to drift.

In an equilibrium situation, the diffusion current in one direction is balanced by the drift current in the opposite direction. However, if equilibrium is upset, there will be net current flowing in one direction or the other. Note that this works equally well in both directions. If some factor increases drift current more than diffusion current, the net current will flow one way. If instead some factor increases diffusion current more than drift current, the net current will flow the other way. A PN junction does not intrinsically prevent current from flowing in one direction or the other. Rather, factors such as applied voltage and carrier concentrations on each side of a junction will affect the balance between drift and diffusion currents, and thus the net current flow.

An NPN transistor with a forward biased base-emitter junction, will have a high concentration of electrons in the base. The high concentration of electrons in the base is higher than the concentration of electrons in the collector, even though the base is P-type, and the collector is N-type. (This is true provided electrons are free to exit the collector via the collector terminal). This high concentration of electrons in the base upsets any equilibrium that might have existed between the drift and diffusion currents across the base-collector junction. The result is a net flow of electrons from the base into the collector, despite the fact that in a saturated NPN bjt, the base is at a more positive potential than the collector. The positive potential of the base will encourage some electrons to flow in the opposite direction, i.e. from collector to base. But because the majority are going from base to collector, rather than from collector to base, the net electron flow is from base to collector.

Or, in terms of conventional current, the net current flows from collector to base.

As a side note, it will be easier to understand how a BJT works from the point of view of the movement of carriers, rather than the direction of conventional current. In an NPN transistor, the carriers of most interest are electrons, and they flow from the emitter terminal into the emitter, across the base-emitter junction into the base. A small percentage of them then leave the base through the base terminal and out of the device, while the majority cross the base-collector junction, into the collector, on to the collector terminal, and out of the device. The conventional current flows the other way, but thinking in terms of the conventional current doesn't really give insight into how a BJT works internally.

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    \$\begingroup\$ I think it is good that you clearly distinguish between "base" (the base region) and the "base terminal". Quite often I found that the current through the base region was confused with the current through the base terminal. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 16, 2024 at 9:48
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No, the saturated bjt does not act like a short circuit between emitter and collector. So any attempt to understand anything starting from that is doomed.

A proper understanding begins with the device physics, especially the minority carrier concentrations and the relation to terminal currents.

OP needs to read and understand the first few chapters of a book on device physics.

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  • \$\begingroup\$ learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/transistors/operation-modes. I used this url to refresh my knowledge of bjts. Are you telling me that the part about the collector and emitter being short-circuited in this webpage is wrong? \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 15, 2024 at 19:19
  • \$\begingroup\$ Maybe adequate for knowing how to use a transistor to turn on an led. Do not use it as a starting point to reason about transistor physics. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 15, 2024 at 21:55
  • \$\begingroup\$ @ElectricWizard, it's wrong in that it's skipping the hedging words when trying to say "A transistor in saturation mode acts roughly like a short circuit for many practical purposes". Note that a few paragraphs later it does say there's going to be a small voltage drop between the collector and emitter, so obviously it's not an actual short circuit. \$\endgroup\$ Commented Dec 16, 2024 at 10:33

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